-Diablo's Journal, 30 Sep 20

I am one with the universe  

Well, I know many doctors personally, and I can tell you that most sensible ones not trying to sell a book, an "alternative" program or membership, or promising people that "calories don't matter", think the role of hormones and individuality is greatly overstated. The prescription is almost always the same, regardless of medical condition (diabetes, heart disease) and age: get your energy balance fixed, and if you need to lose weight, eat less calorie-dense foods and expend more energy than you have been up until now. It works for those who are compliant. I get the impression though, that the general public has been hoodwinked by the flawed carbohydrate-insulin model, and now parrots the line that it's "all about hormones", not calories, without having any real understanding of the complex subject. It's really sad that people are so quick to dismiss consensus and think they really know better than people who have the training and experience, just because they heard Jason Fung give a talk or read a review of an article on a low-carb website. Until you've read the studies, know how they fit into the body of research, and have the proper background to understand how to analyze them, no, you can't do your own research and have to trust people who know better. 

LaughingChevre- 👍 

CICO isn't saying there is no value in deciding what way of eating someone wants to follow. Pick a plan that suits. BUT, like Diablo says, there is no substitute for the hard work of using more calories than are consumed. Nothing is easy about that, and I am so grateful for the good advice from Diablo when I first started my journey here. Thank you! My parents and all my siblings have struggled with obesity and morbid obesity along with all the horrible health problems that come with that. My "genes" arent going to hold me back. I have learned! I still have much to learn! 😁  

GGC what does age or any other factor have to do with the fact that all diets adhere to CICO? 

Garriscc, the solution is simple as in it isn't complicated but it isn't easy. Big difference. Many problems have to be overcome before success is found for most people who struggle with being overweight. 

I recommend Kevin Ba$$, researcher, and his quack list for a list of reliable and unreliable sources of information about nutrition. He has done a great job addressing specific misleading, hyped or simply false statements by people using their titles (Ken Berry MD, Jason Fung MD come to mind) to make claims about their diet without sufficient evidence. He has challenged a bunch of keto/carnivore/low-carb quacks (because unfortunately, there are many in that world) but also some plant-based ones, and others.  

Dr. Nadolsky also added this on his FB post with this photo. "CICO does NOT mean you have to count calories and eat junk food all day. It’s just a principle. CICO (calories in calories out). It’s energy balance. Every diet and exercise program designed for weight loss can be accounted for with CICO. “But what about eating broccoli versus candy? I can’t believe you’re a doctor!” These statements show clear ignorance. Yes, whole foods are more satiating and filling. Yes you may absorb fewer calories when the food is packaged whole versus processed. It doesn’t change CICO. Yes protein is metabolized different than fat or carbohydrates (“but what about steak versus pop tarts!”). It’s all CICO. The mental gymnastics folks play to push their special method of achieving CICO but calling it something else is silly. Realize these are all tools to get the desired result. Some are better than others for certain individuals." 

LaughingChevre- Many Fung and Berry lovers on FS. :(  

Diablo- Exactly! Or should I say Dr. Nadolsky. So true. All of it.  

That explains it nicely D. Good info.  

The curious thing about keto zealots is that if they are right, people like me and most everyone in this discussion wouldn't have success. The fact that we are should be all the proof they need that the info they are working with is incorrect. If we are right keto dieters can still succeed but it isn't because of some magical fat burning. All diets can and do work, when adhered to, because of CICO. 

@davidsprincess I was one of them until quite recently. I can't believe I was taken in by all of it. Let's just say there's something very appealing about believing that you have little control, that "Big Food" is trying to make you fat and that you have inside knowledge that all those poor fools dutifully eating their grains and going for low-fat yoghurt don't. They're both incredibly misleading, as many others in the low-carb world. I take responsibility for the fact that my slightly obsessive tendencies got me singularly focused on insulin and trying to control it by cutting carbs, but I do think it's great to see pushback against their misinformation, which is at best wrong and at worst, harmful. I was constantly anxious, becoming increasingly restrictive, telling myself exercise didn't matter and that I could eat as much whipped cream as I liked if I kept the carbs low, and generally in a bad place mentally for a year, without any miraculous change in my body or energy. They're having to backtrack some of the stuff they used to say about calories being irrelevant if insulin is low because it's obviously not true and enough people like Spencer Nadolsky and Layne Norton are challenging this nonsense. 

You are on the fast track to becoming Diablo's best friend. He loves Layne Norton. I know what you mean about it being appealing and believing you have no control. Great job figuring it out!! That's awesome! 

Not always. What you eat is just as important as how much. If I eat certain foods I will not lose weight, or I may even gain weight no matter what my caloric intake. 

davidsprincess, I feel like I escaped a cult or something like it, ha. I looked at a quack list on Twitter, ready to be incensed at how the good low-carb doctors only trying to save the world from diabetes were being targeted, and what I found was that there were as many studies contradicting the ones that show favorable results for carb restriction. That's how I found Layne Norton and Nadolsky. Their critiques made sense. And Spencer Nadolsky was low-carb and "carb-phobic" for years, so here was someone on the inside and sympathetic to low-carb evolving in his views.  

Wrong, Vasinger.  

Vasinger, try weighing all of your portions. Also, unless you were in a metabolic ward, where CICO has been proven countless times, your anecdote holds little weight. 

I don’t lovvveeee Layne Norton..... but I would definitely take him to dinner and a movie and see where things went. Lol 😆  

LMAO- Smashfood!