-Diablo's Journal, 27 Jun 23

I do know that fat is taking up way too much space in this viejitas body. 😆😫😳 

I don't think either are correct. I lost 8" around my waist last year and dropped 18lbs (about 14lbs was from waist). There's no way I would only gain 16.1lbs (14x1.15) if I gained 8" of muscle around my waist.  

Bringing an anecdote to the party. Either way, it isn't 100% let alone 500%. A 300 pound couch potato would dwarf Ronnie Coleman in his prime if it was even 50%. 

The only way to really find out is weigh a pound of fat name a lb of lean meat 🤔 

Too bad I just grounded my lean venison meat with some pork fat already last week 

And 15% is still a lot when you multiply it by 20 pounds. At the same time, 20 pounds of muscle when someone is lean creates the illusion of a lot of size, so it evens itself out. For example, I know a guy who is my weight and 3 inches shorter who doesn't lift. I look much bigger than he does. 

It's a rough percentage, Jon. It was about 75% of my loss (weight/size/skin fold). I carry the first/last 10lbs of fat around navel.  

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/compare-1-pound-fat-muscle-which-do-you-think-looks-better-berman I have no idea of thw validity of this but this person claims to have done that and has pictures of lean flank steak next to pure fat in various different comparisons be your own judge  

I would trust supers own experiment more but who knows  

Great info.  

That's cool, OTB. I'm trying to find it, but how much of fat is comprised of water? For muscle it's 70-75%. This may be why the difference isn't as big IRL. Again, if it was that much of a difference, a couch potato vs a bodybuilder at the same weight would look way different in size and it just isn't the case. Say a couch potato at 158 vs. you. There is a difference but it isn't as big as that linked in shows. I think taking the same person at different body fat percentages and the same weight side by side would be the most accurate real world difference. 

Typically, when one says something is x times another thing of the same units they mean percent difference. Not the pure ratio of the 2 things. Formula for volume (space taken up by matter) is V = m/p where m is mass and p is density. Also, in real life some fat is more dense than other fat depending on the fat and the person. Some muscle is more dense than other muscle depending on the muscle and the person. So, 15% is an averaged value based on research. Given values for density based on research are: Fat density is ~0.90g/mL. Muscle density is ~1.055 g/mL. Which by pure ratio is 1.055/0.95 = 1.17. (1.17-1) x 100 =.17. Or 17%. But, this isn’t exact due to rounding error. 15% is the convention. So the amount more is 15%. For volume: Ex: V1gfat = 1g/.90g/mL = 1.11mL V1gmuscle = 1g/1.055mL = 0.95mL Vdiff = 1.11mL - 0.95mL = .16mL Vavg = (1.11mL + 0.95mL)/2 = 1.03mL Vdiff/Vavg = .16mL/1.03mL = 0.155 Percent difference = 0.155 x 100 = 15.5% difference. So, the percent difference in volume of fat to volume of muscle is roughly 15%. When to use the percent difference? If you compare two values, there are different measurements you can use. You use the percent difference when the two values you're measuring relate to one another or have a similar nature. Similarly, The percentage difference is an important calculation for comparing two similar numbers when the direction and relationship context between them is unavailable or not important. For example: Let's say you are a parent company, Art Corp, that owns multiple art studio locations. Today, you receive a shipment of two 20 lb shipments of clay. You weigh them upon receiving. One shipment weighs 20 lbs, while the other one sits at 21.36 lbs. You can use the percentage difference calculation to find an adequate percentage of how much extra clay you received when compared to the average of the two shipments. After performing the calculation, the answer is 6.58%. This is a good measurement to use when there are no directional considerations. For instance, if you decide to send the two shipments of clay to different locations, this figure doesn't tell you that one studio got a percentage more than the other. To perform that calculation, you would need to use percentage change, which requires the mathematician to consider the relationship of one value to the other. The percentage difference does not account for the relationship. In the end, the parent company that owns the two studios may not need to know which studio received more, just roughly how much more was received. So, how much more volume was received in relationships to the volume example above. 15% more volume. 

The experiment described below about weighing various cuts of meat and chunks of fat have been done many many times by researchers. The averaged results have been used to come up with accepted density values for fat and muscle. 

For the example of belly fat, one loses fat in different parts of the body at different rates. So, if one loses x amount of body fat y amount is lost in one place and z amount in another. So, to determine how much fat was lost in one place compared to another place one would need to use percent change calculations. Belly fat burns off much slower than fat at other areas of the body for most people. 

That is for most men belly fat burns off the slowest compared to the rest of the body. Not necessary for women. Many women can see their abs at higher BF percentages than men usually can. 

Ah okay. I’ve never actually taken measurements other than scale weight so I don’t have experience predicting the correlation between weight lost and amount of inches off the waist. 

Lol yea for comparing the same weight at different body fats. For me I’m actually bigger with lower bf. My shirts fits tighter around the arms n chest. This comparing to my non lifting self of course. 

Fat has a specific gravity of less than 1.0 and floats in water, while both bone and muscle have a specific gravity of slightly more than 1.0. Thus, persons with a high proportion of fat will float while some individuals with very low fat levels, heavy bones, and high muscle mass will sink.  

I am going to use the "sink or float" method this afternoon to determine my fat to muscle ratio. lol 

@honey 🤣